Why Great Marketing Is Built on Honesty, Not Hacks
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There's no silver bullet in marketing. No quick win, no hack, no one dashboard that fixes everything. Marketing leaders know that. The hard part is getting a CEO chasing this quarter's numbers to believe it too.
That's the line this episode's guests have built their careers on: telling founders what they need to hear, not what they want to hear. Emma Davies, Founder of Advocitude and CEO of Thesmia.ai, and Ruta Sudmantaite, Fractional CMO at Sudmant, join host Karen Lloyd to talk openly about life as fractional CMOs, their role in two successful B2B SaaS exits, and the unfiltered marketing takes that have made their podcast, Blame It on Marketing, a favourite with senior marketers who want the truth over the theory.
Emma and Ruta open up about building multiple businesses at once, why "holistic and realistic" data thinking makes them unpopular in the room, and how a case study from Emma's time at a performance management tech company shows what happens to inbound demand when a new owner switches the marketing budget off overnight. They also reflect on the entrepreneurial roller coaster, the value of community, and why podcasting has become one of the most powerful pieces of content in their marketing toolkit.
LISTEN TO
KAREN, EMMA & RUTA
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
✔️ Why there are so few genuine "quick wins" in B2B marketing
✔️ How to build a business case for data investment when founders want to hear something else
✔️ What happens to inbound demand when marketing spend is switched off
✔️ Why word of mouth is never really a free channel
✔️ How to use podcasting as a hero piece of content for demand generation
✔️ What makes a client relationship worth taking on, and when to walk away
✔️ How to build the resilience needed to work for yourself long term
EPISODE OUTLINE AND HIGHLIGHTS
[00:54] Meet Emma and Ruta: fractional CMO life and what they actually do
[07:32] Lava Metrics and the problem of disconnected marketing data
[09:11] Case study: connecting marketing data for a large B2C brand ahead of exit
[11:05] Why "holistic and realistic" data thinking makes you unpopular
[14:36] The uncomfortable maths of SaaS spend versus revenue goals
[17:34] Case study: turning around a performance management tech company
[20:36] What happened to inbound demand when the acquirer switched off marketing spend
[21:24] Why word of mouth is never really a free channel
[26:23] The story behind Blame It on Marketing
[33:48] Final advice: don't see peers as competition, build your support network
TURNING MARKETING DATA INTO A CASE FOR EXIT
Emma and Ruta's work often starts with a founder who wants quick wins and ends with a much bigger conversation about business strategy.
"We have to do good foundational work. We have to build up solid metrics. We have to test what works. All of those things that a lot of people, in particular a lot of founders, don't necessarily think they've got the time for," Emma explains.
That foundational approach played out directly in Emma's work with a performance management tech company. The business moved from being roughly 60% word of mouth to 60% inbound enquiry, built without a HubSpot or Salesforce system in place, largely through connecting up what Emma calls "a spreadsheet of doom." The company went on to a successful exit, with the PE buyer specifically wanting to see improved website conversion, tracked keywords and a marketing budget with clear ROI attached.
The lesson didn't stop at the sale. Once the acquirer took over, marketing spend and activity were switched off almost immediately, and inbound demo requests dried up within about two weeks. As Ruta puts it, that's proof marketing is an ecosystem: pull the plug on any part of it, and the rest starts to unwind.
WHY COMMUNITY BEATS COMPETITION AS A FRACTIONAL CMO IN B2B
Towards the end of the conversation, Emma and Ruta move away from tactics and into something more personal: what it actually takes to survive as a fractional marketer.
"Don't see other people in the same space as you as competition, because that's a killer," Emma says. She and Ruta have worked together for years without treating each other as rivals for the same fractional work, on the basis that whoever is the better fit for a client should get the job. "That goes a long way," she adds.
That mindset extends to how they've built their wider network. Rather than going it alone, they've deliberately gathered a group of trusted collaborators around them over roughly five years. "We've collected the best people around us to help us do the best marketing possible," Emma explains, acknowledging the bias that comes with that but standing by the approach.
Ruta is equally candid about the emotional reality behind the highlight reel. "Just be very conscious about that, and what support systems you're going to need," she says, describing entrepreneurship as "a roller coaster" rather than "a smooth ride." For anyone considering fractional or founder life, their advice is less about strategy and more about who you choose to have around you when things get hard.
Key advice for marketing leaders
Do the foundational work before you chase quick wins
There aren't many genuine quick wins in marketing. Build solid metrics, test what works, and be prepared to push back when a founder wants a shortcut that doesn't exist.
Connect the data, don't just collect it
Disparate dashboards that don't join up leave you unable to answer what actually happened to the people who didn't convert. Look at performance in the round, not channel by channel.
Only take on the work that lets you tell the truth
Selling in what a client wants to hear instead of what they need to hear damages your reputation when it goes wrong. Walk away from briefs that don't align with your standards.
Treat your podcast as a hero content asset
One recording can generate dozens of pieces of content, and it earns you direct access to customers and thought leaders who might not otherwise give you their time.
Build your own support network deliberately
Working for yourself takes real resilience. Surround yourself with people you trust and treat peers in your space as collaborators, not competition.
Key advice for business leaders
Marketing spend and momentum are an ecosystem
Switching off marketing activity after an acquisition or restructure doesn't just pause growth, it can stop inbound demand within weeks. Treat marketing continuity as commercially serious.
Word of mouth is never a free channel
It's earned through good product, good customer success and good marketing working together. If you can't be found or remembered, awareness on its own won't convert.
Ask for the data before you commit to an exit story
Buyers want to see improved conversion, tracked performance and budget that maps to clear ROI. Start building that evidence long before you plan to sell.
Expect the data to sometimes tell you what you don't want to hear
Good analysts look at the data and then draw conclusions, not the other way round. Be prepared for
TODAY’S GUESTS
Emma Davies is Founder of Advocitude and CEO & Co-Founder of Thesmia.ai. Over the last decade she has helped scale B2B SaaS businesses, contributing to two successful exits and building marketing engines where up to 98% of revenue came from inbound.
She has worked with organisations including Investors in People, Savannah, Appraisd, CharlieHR and WorkBuzz, building marketing systems that create pipeline, align with sales and turn marketing into a genuine revenue driver.
Emma is also co-host of the podcast Blame It on Marketing, and was named a Top 26 Marketer to Follow 2026 by Girls in Marketing.
Connect with Emma on LinkedIn
Ruta Sudmantaite is a fractional CMO at Sudmant, where she helps B2B businesses use marketing to reach their next revenue goal.
She has worked with organisations ranging from early-stage tech startups to unicorns and public companies, combining strategy, content, inbound and data analytics to figure out what actually moves the needle.
Ruta was previously Co-Founder of Lava Metrics, a marketing analytics tool, and held senior marketing roles at Clear Review, a performance management SaaS platform that scaled from Series A to a successful exit with 95% of revenue attributed to inbound marketing.
She is co-host of the podcast Blame It on Marketing, and was named a Top 26 Marketer to Follow 2026.
Connect with Ruta on LinkedIn
OUR HOST
Karen Lloyd is a passionate marketing head-hunter and recruitment expert specialising in marketing and C-suite in B2B industries. With over 25 years of experience in the recruitment industry, Karen brings a unique depth of expertise that sets her apart from most recruiters.
Over her career, Karen has accumulated a wealth of experience that includes serving as a Board Director and being actively involved in growing a business for 13 years. Karen has been a part of five start-ups, giving her first-hand knowledge of the critical importance of hiring the right people.
Currently, Karen is the founder and Director of Armstrong Lloyd. She leads a very special team that partners with businesses and empowers them to build industry-leading marketing and sales teams for some of the most exciting B2B brands - from small, agile and disruptive start-ups to global giants providing a wealth of product and service offerings.
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